Gaslighting & Gender in the Workplace – Transcript

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Gaslighting & Gender in the Workplace


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(Edited for length and clarity)

Intro

We are ready to get going on Gaslighting & Gender in the Workplace. Hooray! Such enthusiasm. Okay, so once again, I'm Holly - you all already know who I am, because I just told you, but I want to tell you a little bit more about kind of who I am and where I've been, because you don't end up doing a talk about Gaslighting & Gender in the Workplace due to academic curiosity, or because you think it'll win you friends or something like that, right?

I'm doing this talk, because I think it really matters to all of you in the room, I hope. I think it really matters to the women I serve at WIMDI and also… it's a thing that's happened to me tons in my career and so I know it's a problem, because I watch it happen to people all the time. And really everything that I do with WIMDI and leadership coaching, is about helping women have better careers, longer careers, more sustainable careers and helping them build up their leadership skills.

Retention of Women in STEM

The way that I like to frame this, some of you may have seen this before, is with the world's most upsetting graph. I braced you for it - let's take a look: here is the world's most upsetting graph.

It is a graph of the amount of women that stay in their chosen field over time. So, on the y-axis there is the percentage of women that stay in their career and then, along the bottom is the number of years they are into their overall career and the yellow line is professional women in general, and the pink line is women in STEM. So, it's Science, Technology, Engineering and Math - and you might notice, like I do, that there's a tiny difference between the yellow and the pink line. They're not really in the same area of this graph, in fact, some might say that the pink line is devastatingly low and yeah, the pink line is devastatingly low.

Everything that I do with WIMDI etc., is to make that pink line closer to the yellow line, because the pink line haunts me. I think it's terrible that it sits down there. What we're talking about when we look at this graph is that over the course of a 20-year career, 60% of women that go into STEM fields eventually leave. That's huge. That's also a massively expensive problem for all these industries.

I'm on this graph, because I was a mining engineer before, and now I'm a leadership coach. And so, I'm there, sort of, right around the 10-year mark, part of just slightly less than half of women who had left at that time.

There's a lot of tragedy here and I think the most tragic part for me is the early part of the graph, because it's not like a slow decline, right? 37% have already left by the time they're seven years in. Seven years in is kind of that time when you're starting to move into management, right? You’ve become a really good individual contributor, you've learned what you need to learn technically, and you're now starting to manage other people, but by the time that's happening, almost 40% of us have already gone. There's a whole bunch of things that create this gap. I mean, I think if I asked you to - brainstorm with me - what do you think? What do we think causes this graph? I'm sure we could come up with 100 items of why women end up leaving earlier from these types of fields and from other fields. It's gaslighting, right?

Gaslighting is one of these reasons. I'm not saying it's the entire graph, but it's one of them. And that's why we're talking about it today, because I want to make sure that little by little, piece by piece, you all get the tools so that you can end up closer to the top of this graph rather than sliding down that pink slide of despair, or whatever we want to call it. All right, so with that in mind, let's talk a little bit about gaslighting and see what we can do tonight to inch that pink line up a bit.

My Nightmare: Trying to Make Fetch Happen

Okay, so a little more about me - my nightmare in life is the idea that I might be the only one trying to make fetch happen. I don't want to be the only person in a room trying to sell an idea. You know that person who is, they've maybe got a bit of an intense look in their eyes and they're sitting there telling you their conspiracy theory and really trying to get you to buy in, and you're like, "Oh, this person couldn't get away from me fast enough. I'd like to leave this conversation." That's the thing that scares me. I don't want to be that person that is so intensely believing in an idea that absolutely everybody else in the room thinks is just not on, right? And the thing that I'm always asking myself, because I really don't want to be that person is like, "Oh my God, am I that weirdo? Am I that person that's out there trying to convince everybody else of my weird conspiracy theories?"

Let's talk a little bit about that - how could I maybe assess that? So, if I wanted to know if I'm that weird person that's trying a little too hard to make fetch happen and freaking out everybody around me, the first ingredient would be that I'm totally alone in my viewpoint. So, for example, if I was trying to convince everybody in this room that "Friday" by Rebecca Black was the best song of my entire lifetime, I imagine -- you can contradict me if I'm wrong about this -- but, I imagine that that would not be a popular opinion in this room, that you'd all look at me like, "Really? "Friday" by Rebecca Black? Is that the best song you can come up with Holly?" And the answer is, yes, absolutely, it is my favourite. So yeah, if I'm totally alone in my viewpoint, that's a clue that I might be, kind of, that weirdo, right?

Another clue might be if all my explanations are useless. I can sit here, probably, and tell you that "Friday" by Rebecca Black is amazing, because it's fun, fun, fun, fun, and it's excellent for partying, partying, yeah. But I imagine that, even if I remind you of all those amazing benefits and those fantastic lyrics from the best song in the universe, you're still not the most excited about it. No. Still trying to make fetch happen?

Okay. Well, a third ingredient about that is if the answer or the theory that you're trying to prove is super, super obvious to you, but really only obvious to you. So if I told you all, that I think that the most obvious thing in the world is that, here in Vancouver, we should kick Seth Rogen out of our SkyTrain announcements and replace him on Friday with just streaming in "Friday" by Rebecca Black, I imagine that I would probably receive a little bit of pushback from TransLink about that, and that people would not feel, as I do, that it would help everybody look forward to the weekend, weekend and get ready for more of the aforementioned partying, partying, yeah, right?

If I'm in this situation where I feel all of these amazing things about Rebecca Black and the rest of you, quite reasonably, don't, I would sit here going, "Rebecca Black is a national treasure" and you would sit here going, "Yikes, why did I choose to attend this talk, which it turns out is entirely about Rebecca Black? What a trap." Not good. This is a bit frustrating for me. I wish that y'all would see the light about Rebecca Black, but ultimately, I'm going to be okay. I can survive this. I don't love that I'm the only person trying to make Rebecca Black happen, but it's kind of okay, right? Not really a big deal, because it's a lighthearted example. And maybe I don't really have the right views about this. Maybe my taste kind of sucks. I'm certain some of you would say that, or maybe actually my ideas are great, but just my communication style is not good. Maybe there's a more persuasive way for me to have convinced you that this was an amazing song, or it could be any number of reasons. It's not really a big deal.

What if it is Gaslighting?

But what if this is worse? Because I said this was my worst nightmare, right? It's weird that my worst nightmare is about "Friday” by Rebecca Black. What if this was a more serious scenario? If it wasn't about my questionable music tastes and it was about real-life experiences that I had, or strongly held beliefs that really mattered to me and affected my day-to-day functioning? Then it would be worse if I was the only one fighting on behalf of that and everyone was like, "Well, what's this about?" I'd start to really ask myself like, "God can I even trust myself? I think that song's an absolute banger, but nobody else does. Is there something wrong with me?" Not great, right? And eventually, if this persisted long enough and it was something serious enough, I'd start to wonder like, "Am I, kind of, losing touch with reality a bit? Can I not perceive this correctly? When I hear "Friday" by Rebecca Black, I instantly want to dance. What's wrong with me? Why don't I get this? Am I hearing it differently than everybody else?" So that's when it starts to get a little darker. And then we might be dealing with something a little more like gaslighting.

So, for those of you who don't know, gaslighting, the textbook definition is that it's the denial of somebody's lived experience so much so that they begin to doubt their own perception, judgment and sanity. When I say lived experience, what I mean by that, is like the objective facts of their life - the way that they experience the world. So gaslighting means that you deny the way that people experience the world so much, that they start to doubt whether they've even got it all figured out.

One of the classic examples of this that I love to talk about in primarily Canadian audience contexts, is Donald Trump. When he first got into office, he had a big inauguration and there were a bunch of photos taken and he said, "I had the biggest inauguration crowd ever." And when you looked at the photos, if y'all remember way back in 2017, and sorry for the flashbacks - those of you that are now remembering Donald Trump's inauguration - should have had a trigger warning probably! They were way emptier, way emptier, than Barack Obama's one that had just been a few years prior, right? And then Trump kind of deputized a bunch of minions to go on the news and be like, "Oh, we installed different things on the lawn and in fact we have more," but every single news outlet, including DC Transit who counts the number of riders they have on any given day, everybody disagreed with Trump, but he said, "Nope, my crowd was the biggest." So that's a textbook example of Donald Trump gaslighting literally the entire nation worth of people. They're saying objectively the crowd was smaller. He's like, "Nope, you're wrong. Lived experience, who cares? Don't need this photographic evidence. I had the biggest crowd ever, that's the end of it." It was a good example of gaslighting.

Another good one that's a little bit light-hearted is… I, not intentionally, not nefariously gaslight my romantic partner, Bob, all the time. He's somebody who's very ticklish and I will often go to lovingly pat his arm, as one does, when you've been dating somebody for 15 years and you want to make them feel nice. I'll pat his arm and he'll jump, and he'll go, "Oh my God, that tickles." And then I go, "No, that doesn't tickle. I just patted your arm, why would that tickle?" Which is a deeply ridiculous response, because I have no way of telling whether or not it tickled him. He's the only one who can know that. So, when I say, "No, that doesn't tickle," I'm invalidating his experience of it, which is the only valid experience of it and I'm actually gaslighting him.

This is something that happens on the national stage by American presidents, creating a massive culture of distrust and later Q-Anon and also in tiny, ridiculous ways in everyday relationships. And, probably, most of us have done this at some point. So, you're getting I hope, a little bit of a flavor of what gaslighting is, but just in case you're not, I'm going to give you what I think is just the most fun and the best example of gaslighting, courtesy of my favorite rapper from the early 2000s: Shaggy.

A Gaslighting Example (Ft. Shaggy)

You all may remember from way, way back in the day, Shaggy had one of his biggest hits, "It Wasn't Me", and in "It Wasn't Me", what happens is that his good friend, Rik Rok, who also sings on the song, comes and talks to him about a relationship dilemma that he's having. You see, Rik Rok, who is dating a wonderful woman and has given her the keys to his house, has decided to cheat on this woman with the next-door neighbor, and has subsequently been caught in many, many, compromising positions with this next-door neighbor woman by said love of his life, who has keys to his house. He goes to Shaggy for advice about how to handle this situation and this is how it goes - the woman says, "Hey, I caught you on the counter," and Shaggy's advice is, "Say, it wasn't you." Then she says, "Well, I saw you," we'll say, "hugging on the sofa," -- we're going to keep this PG in this presentation -- and of course, the answer is, "It wasn't me." Well, she even saw him in the shower. We remember that from the song, famous line, but also, "It wasn't me." And even though she actually had photographic evidence of this, much like Donald Trump, Shaggy's response, just like Donald Trump, was, "It wasn't me," right?

This lovely song, this 4-minute 30-second miracle, or however long it is, is a perfect example of gaslighting and poor Shaggy's girlfriend, by the end of it is probably sitting there and going, "Oh my God, can I even trust myself?" And some of you are probably thinking, "Hold on, don't you mean Rik Rok's girlfriend? Isn't Rik Rok the guy that's cheating on his girlfriend?" And yes, that's true, but by the end of the song, Rik Rok goes, "Yeah, Shaggy, I kind of think you're scum and I'm probably just going to tell the truth to my girlfriend about what happened."

Effects of Gaslighting

So, really, we need to worry about the woman that poor Shaggy is dating, because it's Shaggy's excellent attitude that just says, "Deny everything. Say it wasn't you. It's all on her - she mis-saw, she misunderstood." Textbook gaslighting, Shaggy, thanks so much for the example.

So, Shaggy's girlfriend, when this happens, especially given how much Shaggy has done it, probably 15 times in these four minutes alone, is probably going to feel a lot of self-doubt from the situation. She won't be sure if she can really trust the way that she's perceiving the situation. If this happens enough over time, she's actually going to start to become dependent on Shaggy to help her interpret reality, because she'll lose so much trust in her ability to understand what's going on and he'll so consistently portray himself as the expert, "Hey, that's not what happened. This is what happened, you're misunderstanding," that she will start to turn to him to help her interpret the world. Then, that actually gives him more power to gaslight her even further. The other thing that will happen is she'll probably start to feel really depressed and really ashamed, because this is kind of a no-win situation.

When you perceive the world a certain way and the person that you love, in this case, or maybe it's the president of your whole country, or whatever's going on, keeps telling you that that's not true, it puts you in a really powerless position – it's hard for you to do anything about it – so you tend to get depressed and you tend to be really ashamed that you can't quite catch the thread, that you can't quite get this figured out when it's so obvious for everybody else. Like how all you are about Rebecca Black. No, kidding!

The Basics of Gaslighting

What are the key components to gaslighting? I've got a friendly little checklist for you, but the deal is with this checklist friends, that you're using this checklist to spot gaslighters, not to become one, a crucial distinction. Please use this to spot them:

Deny/Minimize Lived Experience

Thing #1 about gaslighting is you want to deny, or if you can't deny, just minimize somebody's lived experience. We've got the classic Shaggy, like, "Yeah, you saw me hugging on the sofa, but that wasn't me," completely denying the experience or he could just minimize it: "Sure, you saw me hugging on the sofa, but I don't think it's a really big deal, because you and I had agreed that I wouldn't hug other women in the shower, but we never discussed the sofa, so I don't think this is a big deal." Minimizing the perceived harm is another way of doing this.

Intentionally Misunderstand

Thing #2 that you can do is intentionally misunderstand, so when Shaggy's girlfriend goes and says, "Hey, I don't like that you're cheating on me," He could completely misunderstand this as an attack on how much she loves him: "How could you accuse me of cheating? I thought that you loved me. If you loved me, you would never do this." And he's misunderstood that what she's asking for is for him to stop cheating and instead turned it into a conversation about whether or not she loves him now.

Paint Them As Unreasonable

Thing #3 that you can do is paint them as unreasonable, "Hey, if you were cooler, if you were a cooler girlfriend, you wouldn't care that I was sleeping with the girl next door. What an unreasonable position for you to have." You can take offense or overreact to the situation -- you can go, "How dare you question whether I'm loyal to you. This is so unfair after everything I've done for you,"

You're too...

Or Thing #4, my personal favourite, "You're too..." Fill in the blank. My favourite is sensitive, "You're too sensitive." Probably what Shaggy would have said. "You're too sensitive, stop worrying about this." So that's a kind of a basic blueprint for spotting a gaslighter and/or being one. If you recognize yourself in the list, please stop doing any of the behaviors with the check mark beside it.

Gaslighting on ‘Roids

Now, if we really want to up the ante on this and make the gaslighting even more pernicious, there's a couple of key ways that we can do that. The first ingredient that we'd want to add, if we wanted to make gaslighting extra terrible, is a power imbalance. Anytime there's a power imbalance where one person is more powerful than the other, it gives them an advantage to make their gaslighting a little more sticky, to make the other person question whether or not they don't fully understand the way the world works.

I'll give you a couple of examples of how that looks: A common one that many people will have experience with is an adult/child relationship, so basically, with our parents. You see this a lot in, for example, homes with addiction, where children will sort of suspect that maybe there is too much drinking going on and everybody says, "No, what drinking? Everything's fine and normal." So, because of the power dynamic, because children are so dependent on adults to help them understand the world, but also, for all of their basic needs, it makes it much more likely that the kid reaches for that. "Oh, maybe it's me. Maybe I don't understand," explanation.

Another commonplace one we'll see is, especially at work, is between bosses and subordinates, because we depend on our bosses again, just sort of like when we were kids, we depend on them for promotions, for how much we make, for feedback about our own performance – especially - that's a big one. Their interpretation of the world carries a lot of weight for us, and that puts that extra hand on the scale for, "Oh, maybe they get it, and I totally don't."

You also see it, even if there's no explicit power – like there is in boss and subordinate relationships – you also see it even just with senior and junior, where somebody is providing technical mentorship or something like that, because they're perceived as having more experience and understanding the industry or the technical issue better. That gives them a very similar edge to what you'd get from your boss, even if they don't actually control your paycheck. And surprisingly, you'll even see it between therapists and patients.

Now, you wouldn't expect to see this in some ways, because I mean, heck, aren't therapists supposed to explicitly not emotionally abuse their clients, right? Of course, the answer is yes, but what can happen, especially if you are a patient that's working with mental health issues with a therapist, is that because you're working on your mental health and you're relying on your therapist to help you interpret the world and understand how you relate to it, it's very easy, if the therapist is not careful to slip into a dynamic where they're making the calls and they have that elevated position of dictating how the world should be perceived, so it's not uncommon to see it there, unfortunately, as well.

Okay, so power dynamics are key to increasing the effectiveness or the likelihood of gaslighting becoming, really, a difficult thing. And the second ingredient is what I like to call the outsider effect. The outsider effect really happens anytime you've got people who have uncommon viewpoints or different lived experiences. This is really anybody who's in a marginalized position within the group. It could be women in male-dominated industries are an excellent example of that, because, by definition, if we're in a male-dominated industry, there's not a lot of us.

So, you see this with things like, years ago, I think it was the Apple watch or something, didn't have a pregnancy mode, maybe it still doesn't. I don't have an Apple watch, so I'm not sure, but it didn't have a pregnancy mode, because it was programmed entirely by men. Anytime you gained weight or something, they'd go, "Time to lose weight," which is toxic on its own – let's not empower diet culture here – but they'd go, "You've gained a bunch of weight, you better go running or do something else," but actually, it's pregnancy and it's very normal, and losing weight during pregnancy is actually not what you'd want, but because they are men and they don't experience that, they didn't understand that they'd have to develop for it. But if you had been a woman in that meeting and you had said, "Hey, I think we need to consider, periods and pregnancy as part of this health tracking app," that's an idea that might've gotten shot down, because they'd go, "Nah, I don't think it matters that much for the initial release. Maybe that's something that we add later on in version 2, version 3 or something like that."

Anytime you are an outsider where you come from a different background, you have a different lived experience in the world, this will create a scenario where you're more likely to have that separation between how you think the world is and how a whole other team of people do, which sets you up for that gaslighting dynamic to exist. You'll see this as well too with people who are neuro-divergent or disabled in some way, this'll be really common as well, because people don't have an experience of the way that the world presents for somebody who's disabled, the way that they have to navigate the world or for somebody who's neuro-divergent, the way that they think and the conditions that they need for the world to kind of function well.

Okay, and then ingredient number 3, that is really essential, is repetition. Gaslighting one time is not going to send anybody into a crisis wondering if they can trust themselves. Not usually… usually it takes a little more than once. This is kind of weird, because earlier I asked you whether or not we had experienced gaslighting or if we knew what it was. A lot of us know, I assume we know, not just because it's been a hot topic in the media, but maybe because we've had some experience with ourselves. And most people aren't manipulative monsters, right?

I don't know about you, but how many of us actually woke up this morning and went like, "Woo! I can't wait until I can emotionally abuse some folks at work! Hooray!" Anybody in the chat woke up like that or is it just me? I think it's probably just me. I'm probably the only person who's interested in manipulating everybody every day. And so, we don't do that. We don't go out into the world trying to harm people usually. And yet there are so many people who have experienced this.

So how does this happen? What's going on? And the reason that this happens and the reason that we end up susceptible to gaslighting is because the repetition doesn't have to be recent. It's not like I have to gaslight you repeatedly in four minutes, like I'm Shaggy, right? I can actually dole it out over the entirety of your life, or I can even have other people dole it out over the entirety of your life. And then, later when you innocuously pat your honey on the arm and he says it's ticklish, and then you're gaslighting him, then that's a bit tougher, because of the pre-programmed experience with gaslighting that comes before.

A history with gaslighting is a really essential piece of the puzzle to find out if the gaslighting is going to take hold and be upsetting. The places that you'll most commonly see this are parents and relatives; It's really common that we end up getting set up with this in our childhood. You know, I mentioned before, homes with addictions or anything like that.

We also tend to see it quite a lot with romantic partners, where in these relationships, where we're incredibly close and constantly having to navigate together, the way that we're going to live, we of course often end up in conflict and can, if there's a power dynamic or somebody who doesn't have good coping and arguing skills, end up getting gaslit and then end up constantly, throughout the rest of our lives if we get exposed to it enough, reaching for that, "Oh my God, is it me? Oh my God, I don't understand the world. This person's got it figured out, but I don't," because you've seen that happen so much that you slip naturally into that pattern.

I also want to say, we talk about gaslighting history coming from family or romantic partners. It also comes from literally all of society for traditionally marginalized folks. Most interactions when we talk about micro-aggressions or something like that, many, many times we'll run into the world where we're the only one with a particular viewpoint, everybody else thinks that we're way off base and we're sort of stuck into that gaslighting loop again.

We know the equation now. We want to take a healthy dose of denial of lived experience and then we want to multiply that by any power differentials we can scrounge up, by any amount of outsider experience that exists in our lives, and then all the repetition we've had since the day that we were born and that is going to get us our gaslighting quotient or something like that.

Gaslighting and Gender

You might be asking at this point like, "Hey, what about gender? It's right there in the title, Holly. We haven't talked about it at all." So, let's talk about it. We could easily call out any other intersectional identity here as well. Gender is the one that we're going to talk about now, but as I mentioned, any experience of marginalization or being one of only a few, or being one of the only ones against a large group of others will create this.

We're going to talk about the particular things about gender that really amp things up. So a gender dynamic, one that enables gaslighting, is our historical power distribution. When I say historical, I also definitely mean current, to be clear, but talking historically, it was not that long ago that women couldn't vote. Within my grandmother's lifetime it was not possible for women to vote and really only in the last… however long it's been, 100 years or something like that, we've been able to vote, (and by the way, for indigenous women in Canada, that was I think, 1963, that they got the vote). This is recent, this is not that long ago that that very explicit power in a democracy, the ability to vote, was not allowed in women's hands, or certain women's hands for much longer. Even back in the 1960s or something like that, if you remember watching on "Mad Men", when Betty Draper wanted to get a divorce, she had to seek permission from her husband to do it.

Not only did she not work outside of the home and not have any financial power, she would have trouble leaving the relationship or taking any control, because she doesn't have the financial privilege, but she also has to ask permission to be allowed to leave. Huge, huge gap in power. Similarly, another example from that same show – Betty Draper, when she went to see a psychiatrist at some point, in Season 1, the psychiatrist did not report his findings about her mental health to her, but rather reported it to her husband. Again, this is 50- 60 years ago. This is not that long ago.

This is the generation of our grandmothers, the generation of our mothers as well at that time. That reverberates over time, even if that's not the current situation. If I go and see a therapist now, they don't call up my honey and tell them all about their findings. I can just go and get divorced if I want to, right? But even though that's not the case now, we still live with all the reverberations through society of those things. That's still present in the way that my grandmother raised my mother and the way that my mother raised me and the way that all of us were raised.

So that's one thing, that the people who have had power traditionally, have been cisgender men. Secondly, women's opinions have been less valued traditionally than men's opinions. I mentioned earlier that historically, men have held power. A really normal, natural human being thing to do is to pay a lot of attention to the person that has power, the person who has the power to determine your economic future or your physical safety is somebody that you should pay a lot of attention to, make sure that you are aligned with and make sure that you kind of appease in some ways, because that's a really good strategy for staying safe and making sure you can pay your rent and all of those kind of things.

In a large-scale and small-scale way, we tend to pay attention and give weight to the opinions of people who have power to determine key aspects of our lives, and for most of history that's been men. I mean, even if you look at political power as a great example of that, there's how many female head of states right now? Less than 10, maybe less than five. I haven't done a count lately, but not many. In Canada, we've had precisely one head of state here that was a woman, and it was a temporary situation after somebody else had resigned, and it was back in the nineties and it ended before you could blink. We have not occupied that position of power very often, or for very long when we have and as a result, people don't pay as much attention to the things that we have to say, because it's in theory, less consequential to them than the opinions of somebody that does have the power.

The result of this is that the people with power's opinions get amplified and the people without the power's opinions are less valued, because people see them as less consequential. That is something that we're raised with from a very young age; We learn and reinforce this idea that this other person and the way that they see the world is more important than ours.

We talked earlier about how that's a key element of gaslighting. That I understand the world and you don't, so therefore, you have to listen to me and depend on me to correctly interpret the world.

The last gender dynamic that I want to call out is some specific sort of female-coded behavior, things that we're trained to do from a young age. Two that I want to talk about are peacekeeping and emotional caretaking. Emotional caretaking is when we take responsibility for other people's emotional health. I don't recall if I did this today, but quite commonly, if I stand up on stage to do this talk in person, back in the old days, I'd stand up and say, "Hey everybody, how are you doing? Are you feeling tired this morning? Has everybody had their coffee?" That is caretaking the audience. I'm checking in and making sure that they're all feeling good before I deliver my message.

This is a thing that women are taught to do in various ways, where we're making sure, above all else, that other people feel safe, secure, and happy. That that’s our job and it is something that we learned very, very early. Peacekeeping on the other hand is a variation on that, where if there's ever a fight going on, or there could be a fight going on, it's up to us to fix it.

What that often looks like for women is subsuming whatever it is that they need or want, to keep the peace. Maybe my partner wants to go on vacation to Hawaii and I've always wanted to go to Rome, but I think he's going to throw a bit of a fit, if we don't go to Hawaii, then I might avoid having that fight and instead, just go to Hawaii. Let me be clear, he would not throw a fit if we go to Hawaii, but you get the idea. It's subsuming the thing that you want to keep the peace and make it so that there is harmony and no fights happening, and also, that you're emotionally caretaking somebody else.

These two behaviours are both strategies that women use, that effectively result in them taking that lower power position within a pair, where the other person - their needs, their concerns, their emotions - are dominant and your job is to serve and protect everything that's going on.

That creates the power imbalance that we were talking about earlier that helps fuel the gaslighting. It's really like a perfect storm. It's no fun to be in this situation where you are in a male-dominated industry, part of a small group, so therefore, more likely to have that outsider view – where the power dynamics explicitly within the group probably often don't favour you –but also historically, because of the way we've all been raised and currently, because of the way we've been trained to peace keep and emotionally caretake and the way that other people have been trained to expect that.

I'm not trying to lay this on women and go, "Well, if you just didn't peace keep and emotionally caretake, then nobody would ever gaslight you," that's not true, but it is a part of the dynamic that has two sides where we do the peacekeeping and they readily expect to accept the peacekeeping and stuff like that, that helps enable this. We create this perfect storm where gaslighting is really often a go-to where we have a lot of historical context for it and it becomes easy to fall into.

Workplace Effects of Gaslighting

What if we're seeing this at work and not just in a Shaggy song – what would that look like? Well, people who are being gaslit at work would probably end up silencing their viewpoints and their opinions, which makes total sense. If you think your viewpoints and opinions are wrong and everybody berates you and gets upset with you every time you share them, the best idea is to stop doing that and then, they'll maybe stop getting mad at you.

You're heavily incentivized to not say as much so that you don't attract as much ire from the rest of the world. The other thing that you'll see is that they'll be less creative and they'll take less healthy risks. Again, because if every time you're creative and offer an interesting idea, or even a non-controversial idea, you kind of get stomped on and are told you've got it wrong - it doesn't help you to step out of line more and take even more risk and expose yourself to even more of that critique. Instead, it makes sense to be smaller. Don't step outside of the normal boundaries. Do everything that everyone else would do. Don't try anything new and don't take any risks, right? And as well, you probably won't take on any high-profile projects or go for promotions or go for big raises, because if you feel like you've got shaky balance and you're not quite sure how to walk in your shoes, the last thing you're going to do is volunteer to go walk on a high wire where everybody's watching you fall down.

To protect themselves from the pain of the gaslighting and from the reputational risks that can come from it, people tend to avoid attracting attention. They don't take on big projects, which are often the projects that you need to get promoted, to move ahead, to justify large raises.

All of these things result in less impactful ideas being advanced by women. More of the status quo, which is, ironically when we talk about hiring women or hiring different marginalized groups, we're trying to increase diversity. They get a broader set of ideas, but when this is going on, we absolutely squash that. At the end of the day, we don't end up moving up the chain of command, because we've been so incentivized to not do any of the behaviors that would help us do that. Yuck, no fun. "What a fun presentation, Holly. So glad we're doing it."

How to Deal with Gaslighting If You’re A Victim

Okay, so now what? Now that I've depressed you all, let's talk about how to deal with this. I'm going to go through how to deal with gaslighting, if you're a victim of gaslighting. I'm also going to talk about how to deal with gaslighting if you are the manager and you're seeing gaslighting going on. I don't think I have any actual slides about how to deal if you are the gaslighter, so I'll just tell you now: stop it. That's how you do it. All of those behaviours that I talked about and all the ways to increase it, delete those one by one from your behaviors and you'll be on your way.

Level 1

The first thing you should try, to the extent that you want to, is ask nicely. Here's a formula with scripts:

Firstly, validate them, "Hey, I know that you think I'm overreacting..." Or, "I hear that you're not doing this on purpose, but..." Then you say your feelings. "This makes me feel uncomfortable anyways, so this is important to me." And then finally, ask them to change. "Stop it." Right? So, "Hey, I know you think I'm overreacting, but this is really important to me. Can you please stop?" Asking nicely. Try that. Sometimes people will go, "Oh my God, I didn't realize I was being a monster," and then stop being a monster. That's really nice, because it's way less work than any of the subsequent approaches.

Level 2

Go and get some support. If you are somebody who is experiencing gaslighting, find people who believe you. Because the threat here, is that you feel like nobody believes you and that you got it totally wrong. You want to bolster the other side of that. If the gaslighter's got their hand on the side of the scale that says, "You don't get the world, and you're kind of terrible," you want to find some weight to stick on your side of the scale that says, "No, actually you're fine and you understand the world perfectly, and life's kind of okay." Find people who believe you, friends, family, colleagues, a good therapist, people at WIMDI, all of those are options. Then you want to try to get some powerful people on your side. In the context of work, that's going to be your manager and HR. It'll be senior folks on the team or anybody who's influential.

Sometimes the most influential people aren't the ones who are the most senior or are the people who have an explicit position of power, but the people who are able to convince people - either through positional authority, through technical expertise, or just through talent and relationships - those are the people that you want to have on your side so that you have a good army beside you.

Those allies that you've created… you want to get them to intervene on your behalf. If somebody is gaslighting you and saying, "Hey Holly, that mine plan that you produced, none of us agreed to it." If you can get an influential colleague to say, "Actually, we did agree to it. It was in that meeting two weeks ago. Don't you remember?" That'll be helpful because suddenly now it's not just you against them, it's somebody else and somebody who they really respect who's against them. Crucially, what I want you to do here, anytime you're dealing with any kind of HR issue at work, is document, document, document. You document it and get your allies to document it.

If you ever end up in a situation where you're having to have a knock-down drag-out fight through HR, so somebody does or does not get fired, you need to have documentation in place. Corroborating documentation from other people who don't have a vested interest in the situation is helpful. Get the allies to intervene and then get them to write themselves a little note about it, or send a contemporaneous email, like, "Hey, weird what Steve said in the meeting today… so glad I corrected him." Send something like that

Level 3

Create some boundaries. We've got to figure out what they are with regards to the person who's gaslighting you, some questions that you should ask yourself are:

  • What are you actually willing to do in relationship to them?
  • What are some things that you don't want to put up with?
  • What's the limit of your responsibility?

These are three important questions, because we often take too much responsibility, own too much of the conflict ourselves and, kind of let them get away with painting us as the villain. So, understand what the limit is of what you're willing to be responsible for, what you're not willing to put up with, and what you're actually willing to do in relation to them. Then you've got to communicate those boundaries to the gaslighter, but also crucially to your manager and to HR.

Anytime you are setting a boundary at work that's going to mean that you do your work differently or less, it might be seen as being less collaborative. Get buy-in from your manager and HR before anybody ever has to report it to them. You want them to know why this is happening, how you're doing it, and you want them to agree that you should be doing it. Once you've set those boundaries, which might be something like, "I'm willing to talk about my mine plans with you, but I'm not willing to talk any more about the validity of my plans that have already been signed off on last week." That's a reasonable boundary to make.

Once you make the boundary that says, you're not going to talk about the mind plans after they've already been signed off, you cannot get pulled into a conversation about them, because then you've basically just made a threat, an ultimatum, and taken all the power out of it, because you kind of caved on it. It's important that you actually back yourself and stick to those boundaries. So, before you set the boundary, make sure it's one that you can actually stick to. Don't set boundaries you can't stick to. I would way prefer that you set a smaller boundary and every time you have to reinforce your boundary and stick to it, document it. Document, document, document. Document everything.

Level 4

If none of that works, is leave. Here's why this is Level 4, because this is a tough situation. If you have tried asking nicely, if you've tried getting other people on your side to help you out, and if you've tried setting boundaries and it's still not working, and you're still getting gaslit, it's tough to see how this situation gets solved. Most people don't spontaneously go, "Oh my God, I've been a monster. I'm going to change instantaneously and stop forever." Even if they did have that realization, which most people don't, they then have to actually go and implement it, which usually takes a lot of time. So even the person with the best intention who wants to stop doing this differently, usually won't stop doing it overnight, or might not even stop doing it to the level that you want. If they're doing a ton of gaslighting and they generate a little bit of awareness and they stopped doing it just in this one little category and it takes them three months to implement, congratulations! You've got a 5% reduction in the emotional abuse you're suffering at work. That's part of why leave is Level 4 and I recognize this may not be possible for everybody, but to the extent that it is possible, find a new job, a new team, a new manager, a new mentor, or a new project.

Wherever the gaslighting is coming from, try to change it there and know that the change doesn't always have to come from finding an entirely new place to be employed. It might just come from finding new people to associate with in your current employment. Then, if you've got to leave, go no contact with the person who's gaslighting you, if possible. If you're going to do this, you'll have to involve your manager and HR. This is the kind of thing that will get you fired if you're not careful. It's essential that if you're going to stop communicating with somebody, especially if they're crucially related to your role in some way, that you tell HR and your manager, that that's the plan, otherwise, you might later get blamed for the relationship falling apart.

Another thing you can do is communicate only when you have witnesses present. If somebody is persistently going to be gaslighting you, then I recommend that you always have other people there who can corroborate, from your side, what's happening.

Make sure you document and make sure that they document to the extent that it's not possible for you to get away from the person doing the gaslighting. If you cannot get support for these things – go. There are a whole bunch of times here where I mentioned to talk to your manager, talk to HR and get them to sign on. If they don't sign onto this, the chances of you being successful at this are so much smaller. You can try it, but especially if somebody has been successfully gaslighting you for a long time and there's institutional support for that gaslighting, if the gaslighting is happening for more than one person, it's really tough for you to successfully set boundaries, successfully defend your ability to not debate the undebatable and not end up in HR's office with somebody else complaining about you, and worse, with somebody else complaining about you and three other people corroborating it. You don't want to end up in a situation where that's the case. And if you don't end up getting support from your manager and from HR, I'm not saying it's a done deal, but that's a much more likely scenario. Support from those people is crucial for you being successful. If you can't get it, it's totally okay to leave if that's possible for you.

How to Deal with Gaslighting If You’re A Manager

Okay, now let's talk about the other side, the managers, people who have a little more power. What a lovely situation for them. If you're a manager and you see somebody gaslighting somebody else on your team, how can you deal with that? Dealing with the gaslighters first: number one, stand up for the victims that are on your team, challenge the gaslighter's assertions that are wildly incorrect or deeply accusatory and ask questions to deconstruct what's really going on. "Hey, Shaggy, I hear you saying that it wasn't you, but it's interesting, isn't it? Because we have this video evidence, who do you imagine this was in the video if not you? Isn't this your birthmark Shaggy?" et cetera.

Stand up for your victims and make sure that the gaslighter's assertions don't go unchallenged. That's probably, as a victim, one of the toughest things to have happen to you, is when your manager just allows it to keep happening – so make sure you interrupt it. Then use the same four levels by the way, as your employee uses. Level 4 is actually not the employee leaving. It's the gaslighter leaving, but you want to make sure that you're following all those exact same steps with the gaslighter as your employee would, same approach. Coordinated efforts, okay? If you can, change the power dynamic. Make it so that the gaslighting victim doesn't report to the gaslighter, or make it so that they're not dependent on them for a code review or something like that. Make it so that the power -- the playing field between them -- is more level, if possible, through explicit dynamics, like who's assigned to work with who or who's assigned to report to who.

It'll often be the case where somebody very powerful is being abusive to somebody much more junior. The solution that HR comes up with around that, or that management comes up with around that is, "Oh, okay, well, this person is so important and we can't possibly get rid of them," so instead, we'll take this person here, take them away from the field that they've been working in for the last 10 years and move them over to a completely different department so they effectively have to start their career over. Friends, that's a garbage solution. Don't do that to people. That sucks, right? It's got to be the gaslighter to go, not the victim. Otherwise, all you're doing is enabling this kind of abuse and making it okay within your organization. Make sure that if you are changing the power dynamic, you're not changing the power dynamic in a way that disadvantages the victim. They didn't do something wrong here, it shouldn't be their price to pay.

Okay, how to deal with victims who are on your team: I want you to seek out their opinions, really try to actively listen to the things they have to say, try to understand their point of view, validate their point of view and explain the decisions that you're making to them and to everybody else on the team. For example, you're not siding with them, not because they misunderstand the world, but because maybe, there's a financial advantage to doing it some other way or something like that. You want to make sure that when you're working with them, you're fully understanding what they have to say, those uncommon viewpoints. To the extent that you've got to not go along with what they've said, make sure you're really explaining that with reasons other than, "You suck and you don't understand world."

Then, I want you to challenge groupthink within your group. This is probably going to be the biggest challenge that you'll have as a manager here, other than maybe, trying not to give golden parachutes to abusers. But really, if you've got an entire group of people that are working on gaslighting somebody, you're going to have to challenge that groupthink, get in the way, ask questions, get them to think broader, think outside the box and use the privilege that you have as manager to get them to consider other ways of thinking about it. What happens if they get stuck into thinking about it from one angle, is that further reinforces the differences between them and the outsider that is often the victim of the gaslighting.

Finally, and this is essential – If you're not sure how to do this, please come to WIMDI's talk next month – ask the gaslighting victim what support they need. It's easy when you're well-intentioned and when you see something going on, to assume that they would like this particular type of support that you might like, or that you've heard works, or that Holly told you to do at this cool presentation that you went to the other night. Don't do any of that until you have a conversation with them. Go to them and say, "Hey, I've noticed this is happening to you. I'm really sorry. I want it to stop. How do I best support you? What would help you to make this have less of an impact?" And it's okay if you make suggestions, you can say, "Hey, Holly said -- I went to this cool presentation. Holly said I might do this." But, the important part is you go, "Would you find that helpful?" and actually get them to weigh in and get them to choose what the action looks like. You're giving them some power back.

Then with the entire team, once you've dealt with these two people – you've got a long list of things to do, managers, poor things –with the whole team, talk with them about gaslighting. If they don't know what this is, if they don't know how to identify this, tell them. Tell them what it is, why it matters, what do you want for your team? I presume that most of you want for your team to not be suffering from emotional abuse and not be emotionally abusing each other, say that out loud to your team, maybe don't use the term emotional abuse, but say things like, "I want you to be happy. I want us to communicate well, blah, blah, blah.” Tell them what you want, why it matters and how this is relevant and heck, make them watch the presentation.

You can find this talk on YouTube with less Shaggy, but you can find it. I want you to make it clear to your entire team that you're open to hearing about it. If gaslighting is happening, if it's happening to them, if they're seeing it happen to somebody else that it's something that you want to know about, because information is going to be your friend here. If this is happening on your team, you need to know so that you can get involved and help resolve it. If you don't know, it'll happen under the surface and then you'll miss it.

Make it clear that you want to hear about it from them and hopefully, they'll be feeling safe enough to report it. Then, you've got to walk your talk. What does that mean? No more gaslighting, Holly Burton! I have to stop patting my lovely partner on the arm and telling him it doesn't tickle, right? You can't show up to your team and go, "Hey, gaslighting is really important, we've got to stop doing it, tell me if it ever happens to you," and then be the one that's doing it to your team. You have to make sure to take a look and keep your own house clean. Look and make sure that all the behaviors that we've talked about tonight are not things that you're doing. And if they are, clean that up, because your team will not trust you, if they see you as part of the problem.

Summary

That's a ton of conversation about emotional abuse and a whole bunch of different strategies that I hope you all can use in your own self to help you not fall off that pink line and instead, kind of inch yourself up the graph, so you can stay a little bit longer, because gaslighting is awful, no fun. I think nobody in this audience right now is like, "I can't wait to date Shaggy." No, thank you, I'm not in. It's not an amazing thing and it really takes its toll. I've seen over the course of my coaching career, so many people who are burnt out from being in these type of workplace situations and it's expensive, it's expensive to go. For me personally, leaving the mining industry and becoming a coach, I'm doing well, I make good money as a coach and stuff like that, but that decision, honestly, probably over the course of my career is going to cost me about $0.25 million. It's not cheap. It's not cheap to be part of this pink line. It's not cheap monetarily, it's not cheap emotionally in terms of your mental health.

I hope that some of these strategies will help you avoid those kinds of situations. And if you're ever stuck, come have a conversation with me, I'll connect you to some resources, talk you through some of the things that you can do here, talk you through some of the things that you're not sure how to implement from this talk - totally open to have a conversation.

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